Maladie de la carte ...

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par ROBERTSON le Dim 10 Juin - 15:21

Je recommande vivement a tous ceux qui se sentent concernés par ce probleme de " Panic Target "

d aller voir sur tradgang ce qu ecrit CLICKERMAN en page 11 le 08 juin sur le sujet , il explique exactement

ce qu est le probleme .






posted June 08, 2012 12:12 PM


Dan,

I found a computer where I am staying!!! So here it is. The reason your nemesis keeps coming back is because you may not know how to concentrate. Analyze your first shots when you tried the feather to nose technique. The first few may have been ok, but what were you thinking about???? I would venture to guess that you were thinking about the feather and when it was going to touch your nose. If you are thinking about the trigger, you will never get to the trigger. You have to think about and do the movement that gets you to your trigger!!!! That is done by focusing the concentration through the use of the mantra. If pulling is the movement that gets you to the feather, then the mantra is KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING...said in a revolving rhythm. You are talking directly to the muscles that are required for the action you are talking about (mantra). The mantra is the concsious mind's natural way of getting you to concentrate.

What are you thinking about when you shoot a blank bale shot? Blank bale shooting allows you more freely concentrate because there is no aiming involved. If there is no aiming, the subcon and the con are involved in all other aspects of the shot and they are working pretty well together. As soon as aiming becomes a factor, the subcon will naturally take over the entire shot and make it as efficient as it can. It will usually try to shortcut the system and leave you short drawing or frozen off target. When you have to aim a shot, what are you thinking about????? If you are thinking about anything other than a movement that gets you to the trigger, the subcon is left to shoot the entire shot for you, as effeciently as it can, not the best that it can. You have to remember that it makes no sense to the subcon to hold on a target, it just wants to get the body out of tension as soon as possible.

You really have to analyze your shot and recognize what you are thinking about during a shot. Only when you know what you are thinking, will you be able to control what you are thinking. The mantra is a natural tool to direct concentration. What you say, is what you think. Therefore, you are talking yourself through this shot using the proper neurolinguistic programs (action words) to make yourself concentrate on the movement that gets you to your trigger.

Any shot without a psychological trigger is a shot left to the subcon. And we know that subcon, in most of us, will shortcut the system in one way or another. There is an autopilot for most aspects of the shot, but not the shot activation. If you leave that part to the autopilot, he will fly you into the mountain every time.

With all of that said, your shot sequence is very simple but takes a major decision on your part. You have to make a decision that you are not going to shoot a shot unless it is perfect in concentration. Meaning, you have to know very intimately what is going through your mind at full draw. If it is not perfect, don't shoot the shot, there is no one with a gun to your head making you shoot the arrow. If the shot is not perfect in concentration, let down, and ask yourself, what was I thinking about during that shot. Once you start to recognize your thoughts, you will be on your way to controlling your thoughts. You should be able to stop a bad shot before it happens because you will recognize that something is not right, your thoughts are not correct in some way.

So your shot sequence is as follows: Draw back and aim. Once the aim is complete, start your mantra, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING... until the feather touches your nose or you hit whatever trigger you are using (clicker, tab sear, etc.). The rest of the shot takes care of itself. Notice I didn't mention the release. The release is triggered by the psychotrigger subconsiously. You shouldn't have to think about releasing. You are basically keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the go signal. As long as you have made a decision to release when you feel the trigger, the shot will be away as a surprise if the trigger was hit as a surprise.

The trigger is the final goal of the pulling. The trigger should hit as a byproduct of your pulling. Your concentration, once again, is on the movement that gets you to your trigger. If you don't feel your muscles moving, THEY AIN'T MOVIN'!!!!! If you don't feel the back muscles moving or your elbow rotating, that means your mind is not in the right spot and you should let down.

So let's say you are in the middle of a shot. You have drawn back and aimed, so far so good. You start your mantra and you feel the muscles moving. You are thinking, keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, man when is this feather gonna hit!!!! That thought that went to the feather needs to be recognized and the shot needs to be let down. It will only take a few of these recognitions and you will really start to analyze the thoughts.

The mental mechanics along with the culmination of a psychotrigger is the most robust under stress shot that I have ever experienced. I have been through the gammut of target panic and all of the "Cures" that go along with it. It was not until I developed the use of neurolinguistic programming in the shot process that I truly have beaten this demon. But it takes discipline on the part of the shooter to recognize those natural tendencies of the subconcious gremlin to shortcut the system. Just as in the bridge system, if a shot is not perfect, you have to go back and do it again, but the bridge program does not tell you how to do it right the next time from a mental perspective. That is why the bridge program takes so long and the end result is a shot that is still totally controlled by the subcon.

This shot allows the subcon to do what it does best, aiming, stance, grip, and breathing. But it does not allow the subcon to tell itself when to release. Therefore, it has no way to shortcut the system. You are consciously keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the "GO" signal to release.

As mentioned earlier, I have had 71 callers so far and I invite all of those with questions about this system to please call me. If the writing does not make sense or you have further questions on how to implement the system, I invite all archers to call. I am trying to kill the demon of target panic. It does not need to exist, but but target panic is NATURAL, that is why so many of us archers are plagued by its wrath.

I am starting a shooting school to present this program in a hands on, stress scenario based format that will leave archers with a tool to be self sufficient in diagnosis and treatment of any shooting problems that arise with target panic or form issues. So please keep that in mind if any of you would like me to come to your range or if you would like to travel to mine!!!

I hope this helps.

JT

--------------------
Joel Turner

ROBERTSON

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Maladie de la carte

Message par zenorman le Mar 12 Juin - 10:37

Et en bon FRANÇOIS.....Ça donne quoi STP ?

Merci d'avance,
Christian
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par caméléoliv le Jeu 13 Fév - 13:33

Un petit up pour ce post qui gagne à être lu voir re-lu et un grand merci à tous ses acteurs.  


Dernière édition par caméléoliv le Ven 27 Avr - 19:52, édité 1 fois
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par barebow le Jeu 13 Fév - 15:07

CLICKERMAN c'est en fait Joel Turner

Il a fait un DVD pour illustrer sa technique et ses concepts:

IRONMIND ARCHERY SYSTEMS
TARGET PANIC AND SHOT CONTROL CLINIC



Le DVD est dispo chez A & H Archery Inc.

A noter qu'il intervient aussi dans Master of the Barebow iV, qu'il est instructeur sur la psychologie du tir dans les unités spéciales et que ce monsieur est aussi deux fois champion du monde de d'Elk Calling.



En plus c'est un gars bien: il tire à l'anneau de pouce   
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par Thanis le Ven 27 Avr - 18:51

je viens de finir la lecture du livre de Jay Kidwell et j'aimerai quelques compléments si certains ont testé la méthode

combien de temps faut-il travailler avec l'arc de faible puissance ?
avec un 14 # j'arrive sans problème tous les exercices mais les refaire avec l'arc "normal" ça bloque de suite


Peut-on travailler sa guérison du target panic en imagerie ? et à ce compte faut-il imaginer un tir parfait sans stabilisation prématurée (mon type de maladie à moi) ou bien faut-il y inclure les 8 ?

j'ai envoyé un mail à Jay sur l’adresse trouvée quelques pages avant mais elle ne semble plus fonctionner , connaissez vous un moyen de le joindre ?
j'ai lu qu'il y avait aussi sur cet ancien site des vidéos sur les exercices avez vous un lien actualisé ?

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par CANAIMA le Ven 27 Avr - 20:38

Tu chasses ou tu tires « loisir » ?
Si tu chasses, comment sont tes groupements en cible ? Est-ce que tu arrives à grouper dans une assiette à dessert et à quelle distance ? Si oui et si la distance est en deça des 15 metres, oublies la maladie de la carte et vas chasser comme ça.

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par Thanis le Ven 27 Avr - 21:18

non je ne chasse pas c'est pour du tir 3D/campagne

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par CANAIMA le Sam 28 Avr - 16:34

Alors commandes le n° 18 de la revue Chasse à l’arc. Page 28 il y a un article trés instructif sur la séquence de tir. En suivant la séquence avec un arc plus léger (40#), je peux déjà sentir une amélioration

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par sierraleonn le Sam 28 Avr - 16:46

ROBERTSON a écrit:Je recommande vivement a tous ceux qui se sentent concernés par ce probleme de " Panic Target "

d aller voir sur tradgang ce qu ecrit CLICKERMAN en page 11 le 08 juin sur le sujet , il explique exactement

ce qu est le probleme .







posted June 08, 2012 12:12 PM


Dan,

I found a computer where I am staying!!! So here it is. The reason your nemesis keeps coming back is because you may not know how to concentrate. Analyze your first shots when you tried the feather to nose technique. The first few may have been ok, but what were you thinking about???? I would venture to guess that you were thinking about the feather and when it was going to touch your nose. If you are thinking about the trigger, you will never get to the trigger. You have to think about and do the movement that gets you to your trigger!!!! That is done by focusing the concentration through the use of the mantra. If pulling is the movement that gets you to the feather, then the mantra is KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING...said in a revolving rhythm. You are talking directly to the muscles that are required for the action you are talking about (mantra). The mantra is the concsious mind's natural way of getting you to concentrate.

What are you thinking about when you shoot a blank bale shot? Blank bale shooting allows you more freely concentrate because there is no aiming involved. If there is no aiming, the subcon and the con are involved in all other aspects of the shot and they are working pretty well together. As soon as aiming becomes a factor, the subcon will naturally take over the entire shot and make it as efficient as it can. It will usually try to shortcut the system and leave you short drawing or frozen off target. When you have to aim a shot, what are you thinking about????? If you are thinking about anything other than a movement that gets you to the trigger, the subcon is left to shoot the entire shot for you, as effeciently as it can, not the best that it can. You have to remember that it makes no sense to the subcon to hold on a target, it just wants to get the body out of tension as soon as possible.

You really have to analyze your shot and recognize what you are thinking about during a shot. Only when you know what you are thinking, will you be able to control what you are thinking. The mantra is a natural tool to direct concentration. What you say, is what you think. Therefore, you are talking yourself through this shot using the proper neurolinguistic programs (action words) to make yourself concentrate on the movement that gets you to your trigger.

Any shot without a psychological trigger is a shot left to the subcon. And we know that subcon, in most of us, will shortcut the system in one way or another. There is an autopilot for most aspects of the shot, but not the shot activation. If you leave that part to the autopilot, he will fly you into the mountain every time.

With all of that said, your shot sequence is very simple but takes a major decision on your part. You have to make a decision that you are not going to shoot a shot unless it is perfect in concentration. Meaning, you have to know very intimately what is going through your mind at full draw. If it is not perfect, don't shoot the shot, there is no one with a gun to your head making you shoot the arrow. If the shot is not perfect in concentration, let down, and ask yourself, what was I thinking about during that shot. Once you start to recognize your thoughts, you will be on your way to controlling your thoughts. You should be able to stop a bad shot before it happens because you will recognize that something is not right, your thoughts are not correct in some way.

So your shot sequence is as follows: Draw back and aim. Once the aim is complete, start your mantra, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING... until the feather touches your nose or you hit whatever trigger you are using (clicker, tab sear, etc.). The rest of the shot takes care of itself. Notice I didn't mention the release. The release is triggered by the psychotrigger subconsiously. You shouldn't have to think about releasing. You are basically keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the go signal. As long as you have made a decision to release when you feel the trigger, the shot will be away as a surprise if the trigger was hit as a surprise.

The trigger is the final goal of the pulling. The trigger should hit as a byproduct of your pulling. Your concentration, once again, is on the movement that gets you to your trigger. If you don't feel your muscles moving, THEY AIN'T MOVIN'!!!!! If you don't feel the back muscles moving or your elbow rotating, that means your mind is not in the right spot and you should let down.

So let's say you are in the middle of a shot. You have drawn back and aimed, so far so good. You start your mantra and you feel the muscles moving. You are thinking, keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, man when is this feather gonna hit!!!! That thought that went to the feather needs to be recognized and the shot needs to be let down. It will only take a few of these recognitions and you will really start to analyze the thoughts.

The mental mechanics along with the culmination of a psychotrigger is the most robust under stress shot that I have ever experienced. I have been through the gammut of target panic and all of the "Cures" that go along with it. It was not until I developed the use of neurolinguistic programming in the shot process that I truly have beaten this demon. But it takes discipline on the part of the shooter to recognize those natural tendencies of the subconcious gremlin to shortcut the system. Just as in the bridge system, if a shot is not perfect, you have to go back and do it again, but the bridge program does not tell you how to do it right the next time from a mental perspective. That is why the bridge program takes so long and the end result is a shot that is still totally controlled by the subcon.

This shot allows the subcon to do what it does best, aiming, stance, grip, and breathing. But it does not allow the subcon to tell itself when to release. Therefore, it has no way to shortcut the system. You are consciously keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the "GO" signal to release.

As mentioned earlier, I have had 71 callers so far and I invite all of those with questions about this system to please call me. If the writing does not make sense or you have further questions on how to implement the system, I invite all archers to call. I am trying to kill the demon of target panic. It does not need to exist, but but target panic is NATURAL, that is why so many of us archers are plagued by its wrath.

I am starting a shooting school to present this program in a hands on, stress scenario based format that will leave archers with a tool to be self sufficient in diagnosis and treatment of any shooting problems that arise with target panic or form issues. So please keep that in mind if any of you would like me to come to your range or if you would like to travel to mine!!!

I hope this helps.

JT

--------------------
Joel Turner
y aurait'il une âme charitable pour traduire cette page.
 merci lionel
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par L'Antilope le Sam 28 Avr - 17:17

sierraleonn a écrit:
ROBERTSON a écrit:J
y aurait'il une âme charitable pour traduire cette page.
 merci lionel

Tu cliques droit dans le texte puis tu sélectionnes "traduire". Ça marche avec google chrome, la traduction est compréhensible avec un peu de concentration.
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par sierraleonn le Sam 28 Avr - 23:02

merci.
lionel
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par Thanis le Dim 29 Avr - 6:52

merci pour le texte
et donc si l'on se réfère à cet article il faut utiliser le bon mentra comme le self order décrit par JM Coche 

il me semble que le "continuer à tirer" ou "je tire avec mon dos " soient appropriés pour les gens atteints d'une décoche prématurée mais quel mentra utiliseriez-vous pour ceux qui coincent juste en dessous ou en dessus de la cible ? (stabilisation prématurée)

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par CANAIMA le Dim 29 Avr - 9:52

Dans l’article auquel je fais référence le « je tire » avec mon dos arrive au milieu de la séquence, donc encore prématuré. 
1 armement
2 ancrage
3 « tirer avec le dos »
4 pousser avec la main
5 focus
6 décoche
Je rajouterai relâchement (arc qui bascule dans la main) et conscience d la fléche en cible : le follow through des golfeurs et des tennismen

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par sierraleonn le Dim 29 Avr - 14:21

la technique dans l'exécution du geste  peut permettre l'atteinte de la cible.si seul le résulta en cible
est l'intérêt premier, alors ton inconscient prend le dessus et tu es sur un  chemin très glissant .80%des archers sont atteints à différents stades de la maladie de la carte. il est urgent de  revoir les méthodes d'apprentissage. les exercices remèdes proposés ici et là ne sont que de la technique et seuls ne règleront rien.seule la volonté et une introspection profonde personnelle autour de pourquoi  je décoche apportera une réponse , le chemin est long...un sculpteur sur bois ,c'est 10 ans sur l'établi 8h par jour avant d'être rentable. un tourneur sur bois c'est 5, un archer ( ciblard comme disent certains chasseur) c'est entre 5 et 7 ans...
lionel


Dernière édition par sierraleonn le Lun 30 Avr - 20:58, édité 1 fois
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par CANAIMA le Dim 29 Avr - 15:26

Ben à la chasse il me semble que la seule chose qui compte c’est précisément le résultat ; une flèche dans la zone vitale. S’il faut 7 ans de psychanalyse pour y parvenir, il vaut  mieux commencer tôt…
Quant à « l’introspection profonde personnelle du pourquoi je décoche », voilà une réflexion qui va bien occuper mes longues heures d’affût au tir d’été…

CANAIMA

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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par zazarc le Dim 29 Avr - 19:04

 « Il faut se rappeler qu’il n’y a aucun sens pour le subconscient  de tenir sur une cible, il veut juste obtenir du corps une hors tension dès que possible. 

Il faut vraiment analyser votre tir et reconnaître ce que vous pensez au cours d’un tir. Uniquement lorsque vous savez ce que vous pensez, serez-vous en mesure de contrôler ce que vous pensez. »
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Re: Maladie de la carte ...

Message par sierraleonn le Dim 29 Avr - 21:09

zazarc on dit la même chose....

lionel
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